ah chiarelli has that quote so that if you expect everybody to be good in this world urine and a lot of trouble you know when you're going to do when you deal with people who aren't good but yeah you have to be willing to get your hands dirty let's say a classic example like is it cause it's very important to you like the climate or racial justice in america all very important issues that most of us believe in you have to be willing to get down and dirty here because you're playing with politics you're playing with people who are going to resist you're playing with major corporations were going to bust your balls were going to be incredibly manipulative and downright evil in co-opting your good idea and kind of neutralizing it so if you want to create some of you want to actually have results you have to be willing to get a little dirty and you have to get be willing to be strategic you have to understand that the other side might not be playing by the same rules that you're playing with